Hm. No idea should I say this is probably not Worksafe?(Just adds it for good measure)This might even be a little too much for this board but considering so many threads are dealing with sexuality. I didnt think there could be a problem with it. If there is just delete the thread its alright. I neither want to cause problems nor be the source of any. Ok what IS Yaoi:
YAOI (やおい) is a publishing genre which focuses on male/male homosexual relationships and is marketed at females. The genre originated in Japan and encompasses manga anime novels and dōjinshi. In Japan this genre is called Boy's Love or simply 'BL' and it is important to note that yaoi as a genre name is mostly used by western fans. Yaoi has spread beyond Japan; yaoi material is available in the United States as well as other Western and Eastern nations worldwide.
Interestingly. I have been made aware of Yaoi itself by my girlfriend who is pretty much -insane- about the whole thing. She loves to read the mangas both in fan translation and officially being sold in the US and so she one day put an armful of her favorite ones into my hands and told me to "read them". Also a few months back here on this board there was a debate about sexual exploitation of women in comics the way they are made to push breasts out etc and Reverend Smooth (I think) provided some art which had male heroes in the position of females and there was quite a long and interesting conversation coming out of that dealing to a degree with the whole "Fanservice for women". So I did read the books and I was fairly blown away by the depth those stories have and how tasteful everything is done (most of the times). One of the main themes in a lot of those mangas seems to be the Top/Bottom Master/sub dynamic which I personally quite enjoy so made it easier to get into the books which is usually classified as "Seme/Uke" relationships. Seme and uke
The two participants in a yaoi relationship are often referred to as seme ("attacker") and uke ("receiver"). Although these terms originated in martial arts they have apparently been used in a sexual context for centuries and do not carry any degrading connotations. Seme derives from the Japanese verb semeru (“to attack”) and uke from the Japanese verb ukeru (“to receive”). Though gay males are often referred to in English as "tops" or "bottoms," seme and uke are more nearly analogous to "pitcher" and "catcher."The seme is often depicted as the stereotypical male of anime and manga culture: restrained physically powerful and/or protective. The seme usually has a stronger chin shorter hair smaller eyes and a more masculine demeanor than the uke. The seme usually pursues the uke. The uke is usually younger more androgynous or feminine in appearance and demeanor and is often smaller and sometimes girlish in behavior. Though these stereotypes are common not all works adhere to them. For example some of the anthologies published by Be X Boy feature stories on themes such as "younger seme" or "reversibles." The "height rule," the implication that greater height confers greater power is also sometimes broken. Some writers both Japanese and Western and especially in fannish BL/shonen ai/yaoi are questioning whether the roles of seme and uke are truly an essential part of yaoi as a genre and are either moving away from or totally abandoning traditional seme/uke roles and tropes. This is most common in yaoi fanfiction for anime or manga series that feature characters that do not fit seme or uke roles (Writing traditional seme or uke roles for these characters is often seen as "out of character" and "weepy uke" are often a source of annoyance.)
I'll be using some pics from my favorite Yaoi Manga to underline what is meant with that all (Its You're My Love Prize in Viewfinder or simply Viewfinder by Yamane Ayano whose art and storytelling I quite admire). AsamiAloof smug in control also Mafia boss. He takes an interest in Takaba and relentlessly pursues him often putting the poor boy into situations where he cant other but give in to the Mafia boss. Takes the role of the Seme. Takaba. Good mooded defiant doesnt like to be told he cant do something and first fights against Asami and his possessiveness but later needs to give in to the fact that he too cares about the other man. Takes the role of the Uke. Although like mentioned in the wikipedia write up there are tries to break the rules of "who can be top and who has to be bottom". While usually the rules of yaoi play with the notion that the smaller more *beautiful* male has to be the Uke. Yamane Ayano's "Crimson Spell" for example reverses the roles somewhat. That Manga of hers deals with a prince who defends his kingdom from a demonic invasion by using a powerful if cursed sword and tries to free himself from the influence of the artefact by searching for a powerful Wizard who is said to be able to do just that. During the storyline the Prince starts to turn into a demon himself now and then with the Mage 'taming' him which is a reversal of how its usually been done seeing as the spellcasters are traditionally being placed in the Uke role and the 'courageous warrior' being the Seme. Incidentally. I find that Yaoi is definitely one of the genres where it becomes very painfully visible if a man or a woman is behind one of the Mangas with women usually taking more time to develop the storyline to pay attention to expressions and body language and even hardcore sex being drawn more vague while a male artist/writer will go far more quickly to the crux of the thing taking any excuse to push it to a sex scene which seem to be more crude and on the nose usually as well.(of course I cant show examples here about that <.<) while female authors/artists seem to truly enjoy having the characters interact with each other to show budding feelings and emotions and to make sure they will truly give attention to every single part of the book. So I often find myself quite surprised with how much detail is given to every panel and expression. Not to mention. Yamane Ayano (yes. Im biased she rules sue me) for example doesnt mind to switch between serious storytelling and some humor to ease things up every now and then especially considering her stories often deal with claiming dominant/sub but also love and romance to a degree. For more background information about the whole Yaoi there would be the Wiki article of which I took a few passagesKinda curious now about the opinion of others about the whole theme and all *coughs*
personally. Yaoi just doesnt' interest me. I guess if I really examine it. I just don't like the Manga style -- as I prefer my men to look like men and not the androdgyous images that most Manga guys (particularly Yaoi) look like. Have I read and enjoyed gay centric books? Yep -- Sticky. Genus Male the adventures of Leatherboy and Breakneck Blvd to name a few (although the first two tend to be more about the sex than plotline) just my two cents.
__________________"do what bert says" - Flamestar (c/o Ouzo Man)A sandwich is a sandwich but a Manwich is a meal"Evil people can do some non-evil things and most of them do. That doesn't mean they aren't evil." -- JeffereyWKramer
Yeah the stuff is monster huge in Japan. The dynamic here in Asia can be totally different than the dynamic stateside or in the UK. If you're not gay or or your not a woman who's been raised on the stuff... I can't see it floating your boat. Hit the Japanese bookstores and there are plenty of titles mixed in with all the others. Any title with two androgynous men on the cover is usually of that genre. I mean after all you have Japanese culture where it's entirely common place to get on a train and see young teenage couples reading mangas that have rape and molestation of young school girls. Seriously.. can you imagine that going over in the US? Not on your life. But let's face it.. it comes from Japan.. definitely the world ranking contender for extreme sexual deviation. So it's not shocking. :DWhat most people don't know is that homosexuality in Japan during the time of the samurai was commonplace and accepted. Yes that's right.. samurai banging younger samurai. There are one two movies out there. A great way to bum out your friends when they think they're about to see a good 'ol samurai flik and it turns out to be two samurai warriorsgoing at it. :DA mate of mine used to work in a vid store years back.. in the valley (CA). We used to get a laugh out of seeing who rented what. The majority of the gay hardcore flicks were rented by middle aged women. I mean after all you're not going to find a man who doesn't like a bit of beaver bumping so why would a woman feel averse to bareback mountain?:p err.. am I allowed to say that here?
Yeah the stuff is monster huge in Japan. The dynamic here in Asia can be totally different than the dynamic stateside or in the UK. If you're not gay or or your not a woman who's been raised on the stuff... I can't see it floating your boat.
Well... slash fiction is the fasting growing erotica for women on the 'net. One of the editors for the biggest erotic publisher of fiction for women (Ellora's Cave) once said "two washboard sets of abs two throbbing cocks what's not to like?"
Well... slash fiction is the fasting growing erotica for women on the 'net. One of the editors for the biggest erotic publisher of fiction for women (Ellora's Cave) once said "two washboard sets of abs two throbbing cocks what's not to like?"
It's like heaven in my pants yeah. ^_^I like yaoi because it's not het fiction. I'm bi and sometimes I get tired of reading about just guys and girls. I'll read any kind of gay fiction if it's good though not just yaoi. It's part of why I read less novels nowadays since the obligatory romantic or sexual interactions are so usually and boringly heterosexual-centric. I should probably write some since things don't improve unless one works to change them x x
It's like heaven in my pants yeah. ^_^I like yaoi because it's not het fiction. I'm bi and sometimes I get tired of reading about just guys and girls. I'll read any kind of gay fiction if it's good though not just yaoi. It's part of why I read less novels nowadays since the obligatory romantic or sexual interactions are so usually and boringly heterosexual-centric. I should probably write some since things don't improve unless one works to change them x x
I think that's a good idea to write your own material if you don't see what you want on the market. On yaoi. I get confused by the terms. I thought yaoi was less plot more explicit sex (a'la porn) and shonen-ai was more plot over sex. I have a friend who worked on an American shonen-ai produced title. She did toning and loved the work/story. I still have to read the manga. She lent me her copy.
That's an american distinction which is why the japanese just call the whole genre BL (boys' love). Shonen-ai here just means it's not explicit but both are the same thing it's just another term for yaoi. I do have to give the caveat that I do not like a lot of yaoi/bl/whatever same as I don't like a lot of regular manga/comics/books/whatever because imo most mass-produced media is so-so and there's a lot of bad art and writing out there. But when the art and the story is good yay.
That's an american distinction which is why the japanese just call the whole genre BL (boys' love). Shonen-ai here just means it's not explicit but both are the same thing it's just another term for yaoi. I do have to give the caveat that I do not like a lot of yaoi/bl/whatever same as I don't like a lot of regular manga/comics/books/whatever because imo most mass-produced media is so-so and there's a lot of bad art and writing out there. But when the art and the story is good yay.
On yaoi. I get confused by the terms. I thought yaoi was less plot more explicit sex (a'la porn) and shonen-ai was more plot over sex. I have a friend who worked on an American shonen-ai produced title. She did toning and loved the work/story. I still have to read the manga. She lent me her copy.
I'm a stickler for grammar and definitions so I'll agree with you one one and disagree with you on another. Yeah traditionally yaoi is the explicit and XXX version of shonen-ai. Shonen-ai literally "boys love" can be PG. Meanwhile yaoi gives the connotation of XXX. Sadly. US companies and fans just glomp everything together as ZOMG YAOI! KAWAII BISHIE! Anyway it's pretty damn lazy. Plus I may be up for reading shonen ai but not interested in the XXX action. Meanwhile a gay friend of mine who does like pretty and androgynous Japanese guys does want to see the XXX action. So he gets pissed off when something is sold as yaoi and it is lacking in the smut. So pretty much they're selling regular manga under a traditionally XXX name. Meanwhile. I disagree that your friend is working on a manga. Manga comes from Japan. Anything made for sale in the US market is simply not manga. Not that manga influenced comics are bad. They're just not manga and aren't published in the same way because the American comics industry and market is just so different.
That's an american distinction which is why the japanese just call the whole genre BL (boys' love). Shonen-ai here just means it's not explicit but both are the same thing it's just another term for yaoi. I do have to give the caveat that I do not like a lot of yaoi/bl/whatever same as I don't like a lot of regular manga/comics/books/whatever because imo most mass-produced media is so-so and there's a lot of bad art and writing out there. But when the art and the story is good yay.
Or you know what Rev said. I find it funny that you comment that manga is more mass-produced media. Numerous manga fans make fun of reading US comics because somehow they think US comics are more assembly line. HA! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. If they only knew about how that manga got on their local giant book chain store's shelf.
Plus I may be up for reading shonen ai but not interested in the XXX action. Meanwhile a gay friend of mine who does like pretty and androgynous Japanese guys does want to see the XXX action. So he gets pissed off when something is sold as yaoi and it is lacking in the smut. So pretty much they're selling regular manga under a traditionally XXX name.
Related article:
http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=198716
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